The UFO Group

In a time when technology has reshaped our brains to think like computers, one thing is certain: the spectrum of unexplainable phenomena and circumstances remains unsolved. It is this gap between scientific fact and mystery what can empower humans to either achieve all their dreams or lead a life of struggle and pain.

UFOs, ghosts, religion, pagan rituals, urban legends, lucky charms and rituals, curses, witchcraft, astrology, mysticism, magic, and celestial human powers, to name only a few, form a group of behaviors and beliefs called superstitions. According to some sources, superstition means rejecting change or progress, and it is commonly associated with preserving traditions in rural areas far away from the constant fluctuation of trends and technological inventions that fuel and determine city life. Those rural traditions, also called folklore, initially thought of as simply ‘outdated,’ were eventually labeled ‘superstitious’ from the belief that people in rural areas were more prone to hold religion-like behaviors beyond clerical religion boundaries.

We all have certain superstitious precautions, such as avoiding walking under a ladder, knocking on wood when we gloat over other people’s tragedies to protect ourselves from suffering the same or saying ‘bless you’ to a person who just sneezed. However, rituals like throwing salt over your shoulder, avoiding flying or leaving the house on Friday or Tuesday the 13th, or feeling anxiety if it rains on your wedding day may show a deeper superstitious inclination.

According to Sarah Albert in her article “The Psychology of Superstition”, we are basically pursuing more control or certainty over circumstances by looking for some rule or pattern that would explain why things happen. This is why even if rationally a rabbit’s foot is just a furry dead limb, the false certainty that it will bring us luck is better than no certainty at all, and it will give us leverage over our fears.

Gamblers are well known for their superstitious beliefs and rituals, and although it’s a fact that poker is a game of skill and not of chance, most poker players don’t take any chances when it comes to winning - they go beyond the influence of skill and explore the powers that superstition can exert to turn fate in their favor. Let’s take a look at some famous players’ superstitions.

Phil Hellmuth wears only certain ‘lucky’ colors for playing, and we will never see him wearing a white shirt; Hal Kant will never be seen counting his chips, since he believes it brings bad luck; Sam Farha always plays with a cigarette in his mouth even though he doesn’t smoke; Hans “Tuna” Lund thinks toothpicks are lucky charms; Tom McEvoy will not accept a $50 bill while playing; Berry Johnson will never sit on seat number 6, which he thinks is cursed; Mike Sexton avoids looking at dealers because some of them could bring bad luck and Marsha Waggoner will not play poker if a black cat crosses her path.

Even though the previous rituals may seem ridiculous for any skeptic player, superstition surrounding card games goes far back in history. According to Online Poker Report, cards are associated with fortune telling, and they have been historically regarded as potentially dangerous for the spirit, to the point of being called ‘The Devil’s Picture Book.’ Fishermen and miners honor the ancient superstition that carrying a deck of cards while working means they are welcoming a shipwreck or a mine collapse. However, not only bad things are attributed to cards: since the 17th century, cards have also been thought to be helpful during meditation and praying.

Therefore, as pagan as these beliefs may seem, having faith in one’s rituals can actually help attract the desired outcome but in a completely non-magical way: since the player gets rid of any anxiety or fear when performing supposedly lucky acts, the confidence those rituals provide may eliminate the energetic blockages that keep players from winning. In other words, through superstition, players can attract their own success.

Skeptics cannot deny that emotions play with your head, and once fear takes over a player, insecurity will drive them to doom. Well, that is exactly what this article is about, and superstitions are used as preliminary cures for that unwanted fear.

Thus, before you go back to your old skeptic ways, read the following Online Poker Report recommendations and try for yourself.

Pick up your cards before the dealer is finished dealing to all the other players. By doing this, you prevent other players from seeing your reaction when you see them and take advantage of it.

Don’t pick up your cards with your left hand. The left hand has been associated with evil doing, since it is believed that witches used to point at people with their left hand to condemn them to perpetual suffering.

Avoid playing poker if there is a dog in the room. Dogs are known for being humans’ best friends, but also witches’ most trusted companions, bringing disaster to all their victims. So, just keep your pets away from the poker area and you’ll be fine.

Touch your favorite card before the game starts. This superstition assures you will be most likely to win if you do so. Just make sure Phil Hellmuth doesn’t see you, otherwise he will not stop bickering about superstitious donkeys if you get lucky.

If unlucky in poker, you are definitely lucky in love. This is a loser-made superstition to compensate from not having what it takes to succeed in poker, but it is actually kind of consoling, right?

Superstitious or not, let’s remember human curiosity does not end with childhood, and no one is going to judge you if you want to try leaving your luck in the hands of any of these superstitious rituals. Enjoy the game and good luck to you!

One of our personal experiences with our deceased friend with whom we related previously would substantiate this principle as described by Swedenborg:

We once decided to visit our friend in the heavenly regions. We had some joyful news that we wanted to convey to her–news that she was waiting to hear while she was alive in the physical. Not knowing where she was or able to directly manifest before her, we were escorted by a guide to a lovely garden with a Greek temple in the midst of it. The garden was empty, or so it seemed. But while adjusting our sight, people appeared everywhere. They did not notice us, however. It was as though we did not exist in their eyes. Our escort went into the building and moments later our friend came out all beaming with joy. “I’ve been waiting for you,” she said. Then she looked more closely at me and commented jocularly, “you are so bright, I could faint.” After conveying to her our message we bade farewell. As we were leaving, we noticed that no one was yet aware of our presence; however, a dark-skinned man who was sitting on a bench reached out and touched me to, perhaps, reassure himself of my presence and reality. We smiled at each other.

After a lengthy stay in the astral or lower mental heavens, and when one is about ready to reincarnate through karmic necessity or choice, one first goes to the causal realms for a brief sojourn. Not all souls experience this; however, some incarnate directly from whatever realm they may be. In the causal world the soul experiences bliss and peace, and a real rest as a reward for a soul-mission well done. One of the purposes of this stay in the causal realms is the transference of the positive qualities acquired by the soul and recorded in the seed-atoms, to the causal body where it is stored as one’s “treasure in heaven.” The positive deeds and virtues of the soul adorn the causal body with a greater glory than its former condition. Every incarnation offers a form of nourishment to the causal body when its incarnated life ends. This causal body is called in Masonry “the temple not made with hands.” Other traditions call it “the Chalice.” When the soul is prepared to reincarnate for new soul-experiences, it seeks out the appropriate parents, time and place to be reborn in the physical world. This seeking is done with the help of spiritual guides.

Reincarnation is a law for those not having transcended ignorance and earthly desire. Although some religions do not openly teach reincarnation, the concept or precept does appear in some form in their holy scripture.

Although not exhaustive, the above information is sufficient enough to offer us some idea of the occult knowledge available concerning the after death state that is based on personal experiences of psychics and mystics. In order to know more in a convincing way, one would have to study and master the art of soul-travel. Only in this manner, through personal experience, will we satisfy our thirst for a greater knowledge of God’s many dimensions, the Cosmic laws, and the purposes of life.

The Tibetan Tradition

Tibetan Buddhism declares that men are enchained to a world of suffering and pain, of illusion and ignorance. This they call samsara. Samsara refers generally to the condition of the six worlds, but more specifically it refers to the physical plane. To be liberated from samsara one had to awaken to one’s true Reality and the Reality of the Cosmos called in Mahayana and Vajrayana literature, the “Clear Light of the Void,” “Sunyata,” “Dharmakaya,” etc. Tibetan Buddhism, or Vajrayana, declares that there are various ways of liberating oneself. One may be liberated–if prepared beforehand through arduous spiritual work–through initiation by a spiritual master where the Clear Light of one’s true primordial nature is introduced; or one may be liberated through samadhi or meditation where the Clear Light dawns in the consciousness; liberation may also be achieved through recognizing and merging with the Clear Light during transition in the first phase of the bardo.

Techniques have been formed by lamas and applied at the onset of transition to assist the dying to achieve Liberation. These techniques are called:

1) Liberation Through Taste, where consecrated pills are placed in the mouth to assist the soul to sustain consciousness throughout the bardo so that it would recognize the Clear Light when it dawns.

2) Liberation Through Contact, where the ashes of burnt talismans are rubbed on the heart for the same purpose as the above.

3) Liberation Through Listening, this is by far the most common practice. In this method, a manual-ritual such as the Bardo Thodol is read to the dying to remind the person of what it had previously learnt of the bardo and the way of approaching it.

The Bardo Thodol

The “Bardo Thodol,” or the Tibetan Book of the Dead, as Christianized by Evans-Wentz, deals with the phases of the bardo that the soul would undergo and what it should do in order to liberate itself from samsara. It provides a unique psychology of the death process and the attitudes that the soul should assume in order to escape rebirth in the lower realms. Recognition of the Clear Light in the first bardo phase is stressed in the manual, because it is the only means for the soul to save itself from experiencing the subsequent phases of the bardo, which from the viewpoint of Tibetan metaphysics, lead to rebirth and a prolonged stay in the samsaric worlds. Thus, the Clear Light that dawns in the first phase of the bardo offers a chance for the soul to redeem and free itself from the shackles of samsara. This Clear Light is the grace of God that offers death-bed salvation–salvation from one’s so-called “sins,” or liberation from karma.

In Tibet there are many manuals composed as guides for the dying or the newly departed soul. The Bardo Thodol is one of the most well-known among them in the Western world. It is said to have been written down in the 8th century by the Precious Guru, Padmasambhava. The teachings and doctrines of the Bardo Thodol as an oral tradition, however, are much older. It is believed that Bon, the indigenous religion of Tibet, transmitted much knowledge to Tibetan Buddhism concerning the death process.

Unlike the Christian forms of prayers of burial-rituals recited on behalf of the newly-departed (and also the living), the Bardo Thodol is more of an instruction manual read to the dying by a spiritual guide, that it may understand the psychological processes that it would undergo through transition. It is of especial value to those who practice and follow Buddhistic doctrines, or teachings similar to it because of certain inherent concepts. The underlying doctrine of Tibetan Buddhism is that man, a slave to samsara–the wheel of birth and rebirth, or reincarnation–is able to liberate himself through being aware of his primordial nature represented by the Clear Light which appears in the early stages of the bardo. Recitation of texts such as the Bardo Thodol reminds the departing soul, the “awareness-principle,” what it had previously learnt of the bardo and its liberating potential while still alive in the physical plane.

Although dissociated from the physical body, the awareness-principle still retains its sensory faculties. In the disembodied state its psychic senses are acute and enhanced and is able to register and perceive physical surroundings–to listen to the bardo-guidance and instructions as given by the spiritual guide or lama, for instance. In the death process, as the physical senses grow dull the psychic senses grow more keen.

The recitation of the bardo text to the departed may last for a total of 49 days. This is done at first in the presence of the corpse but later a representation of it. The 49 days is supposed to be the maximum length of days the soul would spend in the bardo. This given figure is probably symbolic, representing as it does the number 7 squared. The number 7 is the mathematical and geometrical principle in which our solar system is based. We have many indications of the number seven as creative manifestations, for instance, the seven colours of the light spectrum, and the seven notes in an octave. Forty-nine days of the bardo may also refer to soul-progression and evolution within the 49 realms of the cosmic physical plane. In Indonesia, 40 days is referred to as the period it takes for the soul to complete its wandering in the borderland between the physical and higher worlds before settling in its destined home in the subtle spheres. In other traditions, three days and three nights after transition are considered to be of some importance to the soul. For instance, the Hadhokht Nask, one of the scriptures of Zoroastrianism, declares that the soul remains near its body for such a period. This 3-day lingering is probably based on the occult fact that sometimes the sutratma may still be connected to the body after the pronouncement of “death,” meaning that the so-called corpse is actually in a comatose state and that revival may occur.

Being symbolic, in reality the 40 or 49 days may take just a few moments or several days. Should the spiritual guide be unable to attend to the dying for reasons of physical distance, an effigy is usually made to represent the one undergoing transition with personal effects surrounding it to attract by magnetic attunement the awareness-principle of the dying pilgrim. The instructions of the Bardo Thodol may thus telepathically be heard by the dying soul.

It is well worth quoting the fundamental doctrines of the Bardo Thodol as summed-up by Evans-Wentz in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, as this will help us understand the bardo as well as give us some insight into Buddhistic beliefs:

“1) That all possible conditions, or states, or realms of sangsaric existence, heavens, hells, and worlds, are entirely dependent upon phenomena, or in other worlds, are naught but phenomena.

“2) That all phenomena are transitory, are unreal, and non-existent save in the sangsaric mind perceiving them.

“3) That in reality there are no such beings anywhere as gods, or demons, or spirits, or sentient creatures–all alike being phenomena dependent upon a cause;

“4) That this cause is a yearning or thirsting after sensations, after the unstable sangsaric existence;

“5) That so long as this cause is not overcome by Enlightenment, death follows birth and birth death unceasingly–even as the wise Socrates believed.

“6) That the after-death existence is but a continuation, under changed conditions, of the phenomena-born existence of the human world–both states alike being karmic.

“7) That the nature of the existence intervening between death and rebirth in this or any other world is determined by antecedent actions;

“8) That, psychologically speaking, it is a prolonged dream-like state, in what may be called the fourth dimension of space, filled with hallucinatory visions directly resultant from the mental-content of the percipient, happy and heaven-like if the karma be good, miserable and hell-like if the karma be bad;

“9) That, unless Enlightenment be won, rebirth in the human world, directly from the Bardo-world or from any other world or from any paradise or hell to which karma has led, is inevitable.

“10) That Enlightenment results from realizing the unreality of sangsara, of existence;

“11) That such realizing is possible in the human world, or at the important moment of death in the human world, or during the whole of the after-death or Bardo-state, or in certain of the non-human realm;

“12) That training in yoga, i.e. in control of the training process so as to be able to concentrate the mind in an effort to reach Right Knowledge, is essential.

“13) That such training can best be had under a human guru, or teacher.

“14) That the Greatest of Gurus known to mankind in this cycle of time is Gautama the Buddha.

“15) That this doctrine is not unique, but is the same doctrine which has been proclaimed in the human world for the gaining of salvation, for the Deliverance from the Cycle of Rebirth and Death, for the Crossing of the Ocean of Sangsara, for the Realization of Nirvana, since immemorial time, by a long and illustrious dynasty of Buddhas, who were Gautama’s Predecessors.

“16) That lesser spiritually enlightened beings, Bodhisattvas and gurus, in this world or in other worlds, though still not freed from the Net of illusion, can nevertheless, bestow divine grace and power upon the sishya [student] who is less advanced upon the Path than themselves.

“17) That the Goal is and can only be Emancipation from Sangsara.

“18) That such Emancipation comes from the Realization of Nirvana.

“19) That Nirvana is non-sangsaric, being beyond all paradises, heavens, hells, and worlds.

“20) That it is the ending of Sorrow.

“21) That it is Reality” (1975:66-68)

Man, in general, is ignorant of his divinity. His mind and consciousness are veiled by the false light of Maya. Maya is the way we perceive and interpret Reality. It translates in our consciousness cosmic vibrations into forms, colours and sensations–a world of appearance. We perceive not what is, but what we believe to be. Maya produces a deceiving state of duality, of object and subject. All appearances in the mind and consciousness as a product of Maya are illusory and unreal. The mind, not understanding the nature of Maya, is indeed the slayer of the Real, as stated by Helena Blavatsky. This ignorance of Reality causes man’s prolonged stay in samsara. Recognition of the Clear Light, of Reality, of the Unity of Being, releases man from his spiritual bondage. Tibetan Buddhism believe that the six worlds are transitory and that rebirth into any one of them is undesirable and should be avoided. Man’s loftiest aspiration should be directed to the awakening to Reality as the highest religious goal, and this illumination naturally terminates the ceaseless rounds of birth and rebirth in the samsaric worlds. In Christian terms, this is the attainment of salvation where the true follower of Christian principles is made into a pillar in the kingdom of heaven and “goes no more out.”

Tibetan Buddhism is not the only religion that possesses manuals to be read to the dying. To the Hindus, the Garuda Purana fulfills the same purpose. Ancient Egyptians, too, had their death-manuals such as the one translated by Wallis Budge, the Book of the Dead, or “The Coming Forth From Day,” to give its original title. This title suggests the acquaintance of the ancient Egyptians with the Clear Light of the bardo. In this manual, taken from hieroglyphical murals painted in tombs, says that death is followed by the soul’s entry into the “clear light of day.” Experience of the bardo is universal and fundamental to the human psyche, therefore, manuals such as the Bardo Thodol or the Book of the Dead that possesses keys to spiritual portals, are relevant to human psychological and spiritual integration. The relevance of such texts are not to be confined to its place of origin in time or in space. Adaptations may be made for western society with its world-wide influence. The phenomenon of the Clear Light with its inherent nature of spiritual grace is for all human beings regardless of race, sex or creed. In one sense, this Clear Light may be seen as the “comforter” promised by the Piscean Master to his followers.

The Bardos and Tibetan Practices Related to Dying

Before continuing, it is appropriate that we define here the word “bardo.” Bardo is often translated as “intermediate state,” an interval, or a period between two conditions, planes, or states of consciousness in the samsaric worlds. Basically, it refers to the following four states:

1) Between two states of consciousness

2) Transitional state

3) Uncertain state

4) Twilight state

Tibetan teachings refer to these 4 states as the psychological nature of the following six bardos:

1) Bardo of Life (Kye Ne Bardo)

2) Bardo of Dreams (Milam Bardo)

3) Bardo of Meditation (Samten Bardo)

4) Bardo of the Transition Process (Chikai Bardo)

5) Bardo of State After Death (Chonyid Bardo)

6) Bardo of Rebirth into Samsara (Sidpa Bardo)

The word Bardo, as is commonly used and understood, refers to the general framework of the death process. In this section we will be considering the nature of the last three bardos listed above. But before we do, however, it would be interesting to note certain practices related to the art of dying and the psycho-somatic processes of dying as occultly observed by spiritual practitioners of Lamaism throughout the centuries.

Physiologically speaking, when one undergoes a natural death the physical senses fail one by one. First the sense of vision blurs, then the sense of hearing is impaired, next the sense of smell fails; this is followed by the deterioration of the sense of taste and touch. There is also a feeling or sensation of pressure, followed by coldness, heat, and a sense of being blown to bits. Dissolution of the senses and its varied sensations are symbolically described in Tibetan Buddhism as the merging of the elements one into the other until it sinks into the primal substance. This is the process of Thimrim. To describe the illustrative process above in symbolical detail:

First, “earth sinks into water;” second, “water sinks into fire;” third, “fire sinks into air;” fourth, “air sinks into space.”

As for the external signs of the approach of death that may be observed by an outsider, they may include sagging facial muscles, coldness in the extremities, blueness beneath the nails, difficulty in breathing, and glazed eyes.

This merging of the elements are accompanied by internal and external phenomena or signs which the dying is taught to recognize. Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche explains certain inner signs as cited in the Bardo Guidebook:

“First the earth element starts to disintegrate. One feels very heavy. That’s when people say `Please lift me up, raise me up. I feel like I’m sinking.’ When the water element dissolves then one feels very cold and says, `Please warm me up. It’s too cold in here.’ When the fire element dissolves one feels very thirsty and wants water, one’s lips are drying up. When the wind element dissolves one feels as if one is floating at the brink of an abyss, not anchored anywhere. When consciousness dissolves into space it means that everything grows very big and completely ungrounded. The outer breath has stopped but the inner breathing is still taking place.” (1991:93)

The common language says that we live in the third dimensional world and when w die we’ll move into the fourth dimension. Many times the December 2012 dating is used to imply a transition from a third to a fourth dimensional world. But are there but three or four, or could there be many more extra dimensions?

Since Einstein forced physicists to think of time as a fourth dimension there have been speculations about a fifth and even higher dimensions. Way before Einstein though there were the Kabbalah teachings of eleven or twelve such dimensions. An age of enlightenment is opening up on many fronts.

There has been a revolution in our thinking about extra dimensions. Few area even aware of such concepts, let alone any discussions. A new understanding of the feasibility of localizing four dimensional gauge theories in higher dimensional spacetimes has led to a variety of phenomenologically viable models, and even to the possibility of localizing gravity. Say what?

Let’s back this up a bit. The three dimensions are length, width, and heigth. When you add time, we now have four. But, when we’re speaking esoterially or spiritually, the fourth dimension is used more as an “other world:, and “etheral realm” that we can only speculate exists. It’s the world that savants, gifted men like Ghandi, and Jesus spoke.

Now, while time is very different from the familiar spatial dimensions, Lorentz and Einstein showed at the beginning of the 20th century that space and time are intrinsically related. The idea of additional spatial dimensions comes from what the Kabbalah crowd spoke of that we relate to string theory- which is just that a theory!

But, the veil of ignorance is coming off.

The reason we do not feel these additional spatial dimensions in our everyday life (if they exist) is because they are very different from the three dimensions we are familiar. It turns out that it is possible that our world is PINNED to a 3-dimensional sheet. To illustrate this, imagine an ant crawling on a sheet of paper in your hand. For the ant, the ‘universe’ is pretty much two-dimensional, as it cannot leave the surface of the paper. It only knows North from South and East from West, but up and down don’t make any sense as long as it has to stay on the sheet of paper. In pretty much the same way, we could be restrained to a three-dimensional world, which is in fact a part of a more complicated multi-dimensional universe!

But, and this is one of the points and purposes of this web site, I beleive we are on the cusp, leading up to 2012, of breaking out of our currnet consciousness and into an awareness of the universe that will totally change our view(s) of life and therefore us.

When you consider what you are in the universe then consider your place as if your were all a family that no longer lives in one place, as it had when the family was born and grew up as a family unit.

Now the family has moved on. Its members live in different places; in this case the members live in different parts of all of reality.

When members of a family live apart sometimes they lose touch with each other. They grow apart. Some will go on to study and to learn while others remain stagnant or live simple lives.

Over time, because of their separation, they forget about one another and even begin to change or evolve so completely that if they should ever meet again they would not recognize each other.

Ask yourself what happens when they might meet in the far future, when one group has grown and advanced while the other group lives its life with no improvements on the technological side.

The simple one would be very surprised to meet his long lost relative. If the relative had developed new means of transportation or even traversed the plains of reality which you call dimensions, then there would be so much difference that one would not recognize the other as a former relative.

So now you see what we are saying. What you call intelligence was once formed as part of a development that consisted of many families. These families moved to other parts of the universe and even traversed other plains of existence. They grew apart in the extreme sense of the word. Their growth was enough that they even took on different forms of physical appearance.

Now some of the relatives have come to visit you. As it happens you are in the beginning stages of your own development. And it happens that when they visit you they are unwilling to announce themselves to you. It seems that you have gone in different directions in your development.

They come here as friends. They wish to cross the differences in any way they can without bringing notice to themselves for the time being.

Some of these relatives are even wishing to bridge the gap that has separated you. The experiments that you hear about in stories about aliens are merely stories about their attempts to make you more similar.

If you met a relative who was living in a primitive country would you wish to help them? You would want to help your brothers and sisters.

Now we reach anther point in this discussion. If you found your relative suffering from a bad case of mismanagement of his resources and if it seemed that he was about to destroy himself and the habitat that he lives in would you not be alarmed? What steps would you take to help him out? If his environment was at the point of collapse you would wish to help.

So it is with many of the aliens. Some are here to help you. Some are here to look and then to leave. Others have developed to the point that seeing you die off is not important and they came and they left.

Open up to change! For there are those who care about you. Be prepared for vast changes in your lives. For your salvation has come in the form of long lost brothers and sisters. Be open, for their interests are for you to survive and to flourish as a species. They also wish to help you to reinvent your environment, for you have brought it to the brink of destruction.

As for my last words, I wish you to listen and to learn for there is much that you have not learned. Your religions have touched upon some truths and your science is also touching upon the truth. This is wonderful for you as a race, yet it is time to listen.

You will be as students who missed class a few times. You have the basic structure of knowledge but pieces are missing. A time will come in the not too distant future when your relatives will land their ships and cross dimensional vehicles in order to invest of themselves in your development.

This time will be important. It will be long and it will cover more teaching than you can handle in one day or even in many days. Be prepared to study new technologies for many years.

When the time comes for your relatives to leave you, you will be ready to join with the larger community. In fact you will rejoin your long-lost family.

Now go and have peace and patience for you will need this.

No, this title isn’t a typo. I am not writing about UFOs. A UOF, unlike a UFO, has had millions of confirmed sightings and can be easily spotted. It is the Uh Oh Factor: the fears, self-judgments, and limiting beliefs that stop us dead in our tracks, generally right before or right after we take a risk.

You know how your mind works: You apply for a job and you pump yourself up for the interview, telling yourself that you are the right person—perhaps the most qualified candidate—and that they’d be fools to pass you up. You remind yourself of how well you have performed in your current position and how undervalued you have been, which is why you deserve that new position.

But then you no sooner submit your résumé and that little voice starts whispering in your ear, “What if I don’t get the job? What if it means I have to travel more? What if I don’t like my new boss? What if I don’t like my new colleagues? What if they don’t like me? What if I have to work longer hours?” And the worst what if of all is the one with the F word, “What if I fail?” (This mindset works similarly with dating.)

All of our what ifs create the Uh Oh Factor: the negative thinking that reminds us of each of our character flaws, every painfully embarrassing moment from our past, every fear that’s woken us up at 2:00 A.M. bathed in sweat. This Uh Oh Factor (UOF), untended to, can instantly overpower our tenuous hold on our still-delicate affirmations.

The volume of our UOF will only go up if we try to ignore it. In short order, we will hear the voices within shouting, “You’re so full of yourself. Who were you to think you could land this job? You’re a fraud, a phony. They’ll see right through you.” Try to push these negative thoughts away and it’s like playing Whack-A-Mole: you have to be on high alert looking for where and how they’re going to pop up again if you’re going to defeat them.

So what can you do when the UOF begins to override your confidence? As Ram Dass, a wonderfully funny Buddhist teacher says, you can practice thinking of your Uh Oh thoughts—those neurotic fears, self-judgments, and limiting beliefs—as little schmos. Then, instead of trying to bar them from entry, which is futile anyway, invite them in for tea.

Imagine this scene: Three little schmos, looking like Snow White’s dwarves, come knocking at your door. Instead of hiding in the coat closet, you welcome them in, escorting them to the dining room table. Without any need for small talk, you say to the one on your right, “I recognize you. You’re the schmo who tells me I’m not good enough.” Then you turn to your left. “And you’re the schmo who catalogues the imperfections of my body.” Now you look across the table at another one who is returning your grin and say, “And you, you’re the schmo who reminds me of all my mistakes.” Then, with an inclusive sweep of your arm, you announce, “Thank you all for having tea with me.” You look at your watch and then continue, “But tea time is over because, after all, I am a busy person.” You see your little schmos to the door, although they are reluctant to go because you’ve been such a good listener. When they ask if they can come back, you let them know that they needn’t worry; certainly you’ll hear them next time they come knocking. You wave to them as they retreat and then close the door with a sigh of relief.

What you do next is remember to feel grateful that you have learned how to say hello and goodbye to your little schmos. Then you restate your affirmations, call on your support system to remind you of your best qualities, demonstrate behaviors that make you feel good about the person you see in the mirror, and take a leap of faith that these practices will not only keep you sane but will provide you with the courage to take the next risk that your spirit urges you towards.

Shapes define your photograph. Similar shapes form patterns. Dissimilar shapes draw attention. Imagine a long row of small rubber balls placed together in a semi circle. The roundness of the ball reinforces the curve of the semi circle. Seeing the roundness causes a familiarity in the image, in other words, it creates a pattern that your eye wants to follow. Now picture that same long row of balls with a small square block in line about two thirds of the way back. Your eye may follow the row of balls, but it will stop and look longer at the square. That’s not because the square is more interesting, but because it’s a different shape.

This process of forcing a viewer to stop and look again is commonly known as creating a “Spot”. A “Spot” does not have to be formed by a different shape. It could be a different color, texture, or size. Most often it’s something that is totally different, like a rose in a field full of daises. Being aware of shapes is similar to being aware of lines that can lead your eyes either into or out of a photograph. Shapes can be obvious or not so obvious. They can be real, or they can be implied.

Why do some photographers seem to take forever to arrange a group of people? What is it they’re looking for? More than likely, it has to do with shapes. Three people standing in a straight line is boring. Move one of them up or down and suddenly you’ve formed a triangle. Add one person in the opposite position of the point and now you form a diamond. Shape adds feeling to the unemotional canvas of a photograph.

Obviously not all shapes have the same impact. Circles and Triangles tend to grab attention. Squares and Rectangles on the other hand tend to blend in. Combining shapes is often what makes the difference between a great shot and a boring one. Shape often goes hand in hand with texture. The roundness of the female form is usually more pleasing to look at than the coldness of a steel beam.

When my wife and I were engaged we had a friend take some photos of us for the wedding announcement. We went to a local park and found a nice interesting big rock to sit on. When our friend took the shots, she was not aware of the shapes in the background. In the distance there was a street lamp. The way the shot was taken the lamp pole was not in the shot, but the lamp part itself was. To this day, friends still ask: “Remember that UFO in the background of your announcement pictures?”

Sometimes shapes are formed by the lack of something; this is often referred to as:
“Negative Space”. Positive space is simple. That’s your subject, usually in the foreground.
But negative space on the other hand, is what most people are not aware of (like the UFO). Sometimes shapes are opposite of everything else in the Positive space, this can leave the viewer confused. You might say, “Something is just not right.” When in doubt, start looking at your negative space. The bright round shape between subjects may actually be pulling your eyes away from the subject itself. This is a classic example of: Negative Space.

Where you place the shape also matters. Here is a photo tip to remember: if you are taking a family portrait and the father is huge (round or tall) don’t put him right in the middle up front. Why? People will have a hard time looking at anyone else in the shot, if his shape dominates
the picture. Place him behind someone else, or have him kneeling so he doesn’t tower over everyone else. Being aware of shapes (both obvious and not so obvious), can make all the difference in the world.

In the 1920’s, there was a big sensation in the US. Two sisters had photographed fairies flying around flowers in their garden. It was an unbelievable event. The two gave interviews and talked stuff. It was after more than sixty years that one sister revealed the whole thing was a hoax. The fairies were made of paper. Nonetheless they captured public imagination. It was something different and unbelievable, but was revealed a hoax later. But thousands of paranormal and supernatural things remain the way they are- uncanny and unimaginable. No one has explanations. All the same, people love to know more and indulge in these pursuits.

Very often we have astrologers predicting events. Most people love the opportunity to get one’s palm read by an astrologer. Believe the stuff or scoff at it. But the whole idea is fascinating to humans. Many people read the headlines of a newspaper later, but read their horoscope first. Astrologers and fortune tellers may talk in deceptive and ambiguous terms. Knowing the same, people flock to them.

Science and scientists try a lot. They never come up with satisfying explanations to paranormal and psychic stuff. Human beings are a curious lot. Issues with explanations satisfy them. But things with no explanations fascinate them. Take this one. Former US presidents Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy - Kennedy’s life was very nearly a copy of Lincoln’s. Both became presidents after similar victories. Held office for nearly same number of days. Both were assassinated outside a theater near their car. The name of the killer was the same in both cases. These two incidents happened more than eighty years apart. Science does not have any explanation to this. People are intrigued by such happenings.

Human minds are adventurous. Always in search of thrills. No wonder, why horror movies are so popular. Everyone knows it’s all make believe. People still get white with fear inside cinemas and dream of ghosts for next few days. Calling spirits of dead people has become an industry in Britain. You have Gypsy ladies peering in a psychic glass ball and calling spirits of the dead people you want to get in contact with. Forget the common man, British aristocracy has been known to visit them more than anyone else.

Science-fiction -a word that sums up the topic. All the science-fiction novels, movies is make-believe. Nothing is real but every thing’s in a proper scientific way. Giant spaceships, alien landings, UFOs kidnapping people all happen in science fiction. Actually there’s a group of people in US who claim to have been kidnapped by UFOs. They believe, they have had extra-terrestrial contact. What’s true, what’s not only time will tell. Now if there were a time machine to travel in the future like in the movies?

A general consensus has emerged among serious, science oriented UFO researchers that a certain small percentage of UFOs are real and are not figments of anyone’s imagination. Furthermore, it is well known that many individuals claim to receive messages from alleged extra-terrestials aboard UFOs.

The messages received from UFOs are generally occultic and steer people away from belief in Christian doctrine. Extra-terrestials tend to undermine or attack the Christian faith.

Christian scholars and researchers have responded to this attack. In this article I will show that leading UFO researchers, many of whom are agnostic, have come around to generally support the Christian position on UFO phenomena.

After all the UFO sightings have been carefully analyzed and most explained away as natural phenomena the remaining UFOs, called residual UFOs (RUFOs) are regarded as real. They are real yet the leading researchers say they are not metallic spacecraft from distant stars or planets.

Astronomers who have devoted their careers to studying UFOs point to the fact that UFO flight patterns defy the laws of physics such as turning and accelerating so fast that any metal spaceship would disintegrate even if the metal spaceship was a solid iron ball. Furthermore, UFOs are seen in the atmosphere and not observed coming in from outer space.

UFO sightings have been reported throughout history. Ancient literature describes ‘aerial people’ and ‘cloud ships’ in terms that correspond to modern UFO sightings. In 1691 a Scottish minister wrote a book describing how Scottish farmers were harassed by paranormal entities similar to the UFOs of our time.

All of us are aware of the many UFO cults that have sprung up. There have even been television specials devoted to UFO phenomena.

Francis Crick, Nobel prize winning co-discoverer of DNA, calculated the probability of proteins forming by random collisions of atoms in the primordial ooze. Crick found it so remotely improbable that proteins and other building blocks of life could form by chance on earth that he decided that aliens from outer space must have brought life to earth.

Crick’s theory that claims that aliens brought life to earth is called the “Guided Panspermia Theory” of life origins. This new theory of life origins gave momentum to UFO research.

Close encounters of the fourth kind are when people (almost invariably occultists and New Agers) are actually abducted and communicate with the aliens. The aliens generally give messages with deep religious impact that steer people away from Christianity.

Let’s consider the following quote: “For example, ‘The Urantia Book,’ a tome supposedly communicated to humans by spirit dictation from ’superuniverse rulers,’ spends the first two-thirds of its 2,097 pages describing a ‘universe of universes’ that is not subject to space and time”

The quote continues: “The last third of this UFO bible denies the full deity of Jesus Christ and humanity’s need for salvation from its sinful condition.” (Quoted from Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men: A Rational Christian Look at UFOs and Extraterrestials by Ross, Samples and Clark p. 122.)

It seems plain from the above quote and from abundant other evidence that the aliens oppose Christian doctrine. This leads me to believe that the aliens are actually demons.

It is also very interesting and revealing to note that many of the best UFO researchers seem to be coming around to a view that undergirds and supports the Christian view that demons are involved.

Astronomer J. Alan Hynek and the late French physicist Jacques Vallee are perhaps the most respected UFO researchers in the world. Both are agnostics. No one can consider them Christians with a theological ax to grind.

Both men have made what I consider to be very bold statements that clearly undergird the Christian position that spiritual entities are behind UFO phenomena. For example, Hynek said that UFOs cause physical effects “in the same way that a poltergeist can produce very real physical effects.”

Vallee said “The UFO phenomenon represents evidence for other dimensions beyond spacetime . . . It is a spiritual system that acts on humans and uses humans.”

There are many other quotes I could cite. Vallee was the leading proponent of the Interdimensional Hypothesis which is the view that UFOs come from another dimension (Christians like me would say the other dimension is the dimension of spirit) and not from interstellar travel.

Many prominent born-again Christian scholars such as David Allen Lewis have done research on UFO phenomena. It seems clear to them that demons are using UFOs to deceive millions and prepare them to embrace an occultic, ‘New Age’ type of faith.

Some say that UFOs and the teachings that proceed from them are preparing the world to receive the coming antichrist.

I will close this article by mentioning the fact that there have been documented cases of close encounters of the fourth kind, which are abductions of people by UFOs, that have actually been stopped when the people involved called out the name of Jesus. In other words the people appealed to the atoning work of Christ who died for our sins.

When they cried out to Jesus the demons attempting the abduction ceased their activity. The demons fear the power of Christ and must submit to the power of Christ because Christ is the Son of God. See the April 2001 issue of Charisma magazine for documentation of UFO abductions that were stopped in this way.

A major source for this article was Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men: A Rational Christian Look at UFOs and Extraterrestials by Ross, Samples and Clark.

Shirley MacLaine had some things to say about Dennis Kucinich and UFOs in her new book, Sage-ing While Age-ing. According to Ms MacLaine, Dennis Kucinich had a UFO sighting while he was visiting her home in Graham, Washington, about fifteen years ago. She writes, “And then the smell of roses drew him out to my balcony, where he looked up. He saw a gigantic, triangular craft, silent and observing him. He said it hovered, soundless, for ten minutes or so and sped away with a speed he couldn’t comprehend.” Kucinich was later asked if he really did see a UFO by Tim Russert of NBC News during a debate involving the 2008 Democratic presidential candidate hopefuls and replied, “I did…you have to keep in mind that Jimmy Carter saw a UFO.” I’m guessing that the Congressman felt a need to play the Carter card to add credibility to his answer.

There are a number of important politicians and celebrities connected to the UFO subject in one way or another. Former U.S. Presidents Reagan and Carter have openly talked about experiencing UFO sightings, while President John F. Kennedy had a close encounter that was a little too close for comfort. Carter saw a classic nocturnal light while standing around waiting for a meeting to begin with ten members of the Lion’s Club of Leary, Georgia in October of 1969. The object appeared to change color and shape during the roughly ten to twelve minutes they watched it.

During the 1976 Presidential Campaign, Jimmy Carter talked about his sighting and promised to reveal anything he could find out about UFOs if elected. Although a former Navy Officer, he was considered a dove by members of the military hierarchy. They didn’t trust him and believed Carter was trying to starve them down into smaller and less influential departments through funding cuts. It’s assumed that he was never told anything of substance about UFOs by military insiders.

While many historians choose to paint Carter as having a cozy relationship with intelligence gathering agencies because of his less threatening assessment of the Soviet Union’s military abilities that agreed with some of theirs, this doesn’t mix well with the facts. During his first briefing by then CIA Director George H.W. Bush, President Elect Carter asked to see documents related to UFOs. Bush told him that any documents which might exist about such things were classified above his immediate need to know. If he wanted to see any, he would have to ask the appropriate congressional committee to declassify them. As president, Carter sought to dismantle the CIA superstructure into smaller agencies, but failed.

Ronald Reagan was a completely different story. As a member of Army Air Force Intelligence during World War II, a supporter of military modernization and a president with a vice president that once served as CIA Director, we assume he was told more about UFOs than most elected officials. Reagan’s own interest in and experience with the phenomenon is well known. His daughter, Patti Davis, said he was “fascinated with stories about unidentified flying objects and the possibility of life on other worlds.”

Ronald Reagan had two UFO sightings that we know about. The first occurred while he was still acting in films sometime during the 1950s. After showing up late for a dinner party attended by other Hollywood celebrities, Ronald and Nancy Reagan said they saw a UFO. This story was later confirmed by the Kitty Kelly, Lucille Ball and Steve Allen. The second sighting occurred in 1974 while he was Governor of California.

Less than a month after leaving the presidency in 1989, Ronald Reagan reiterated a story he first told to a Bureau Chief for the Wall Street Journal in 1974:

“I was in a plane last week when I looked out the window and saw this white light. It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said, ‘Have you seen anything like that before?’ He was shocked and said, ‘Nope.’ And I said to him: ‘Let’s follow it!’

We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright greenish-white light. We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When we got off the plane, I told Nancy all about it.”

During his first summer as President, John F. Kennedy retreated to the Kennedy compound along the Nantucket Sound in Hyannis, Massachusetts, for some rest and relaxation. While cruising around in one of the Kennedy motor boats, the president and a few guests reportedly saw a classic disc-shaped object suddenly appear at a low altitude near their vessel. At one point, the disc may have been as close as one hundred feet away. This sent secret service agents in nearby launches scrambling to get the president’s boat to safety. After the object vanished and the motor boat was back on shore, the president told his guests not to talk about what happened.

While Carter, Reagan and Kennedy saw unidentified flying objects and George H.W. Bush probably knew all about them, UFO stories involving Presidents Truman and Eisenhower have become legendary. The story of an alleged meeting between Alien dignitaries and President Dwight D. Eisenhower is one that refuses to die. It stems from a report that the president disappeared briefly during a trip to a Palm Springs resort which occurred in February of 1954.

On Saturday, February 20, 1954, some members of the white house press corps noticed that President Eisenhower missed a planned event. They contacted his spokesperson who seemed unable to provide an immediate explanation for the absence. After it became obvious that the president was no longer at the Palm Springs resort, rumors flew that he might have become seriously ill and been moved to a military infirmary or hospital for treatment. Finally, a besieged spokesperson told the press that the president chipped a tooth during a meal and was taken to visit a nearby dentist.

A steak barbeque was held a few days later and the dentist who allegedly treated Eisenhower was introduced to the press. The man seemed embarrassed and nervous. Years later his widow was unable to provide any particulars about the president’s visit to the dentist’s office that was located in their home. Instead, a number of stories have surfaced about a late night trip that President Eisenhower made to Edwards Air Force Base.

Eisenhower’s alleged visit to Edwards has always been a point of conspiratorial contention. Some say it had to do with an invitation to view some new super weapon or secret military aircraft. Others claim that Eisenhower actually met and signed agreements with some type of Aliens. Personally, I believe he was shown what remained of a crashed UFO and its occupants from any one of several crashes that may have taken place in the Southwest USA during the late 1940s or early 1950s.

President Harry Truman has become an enigmatic figure within UFO research thanks to a series of documents that tell the tale of a quickly-formed scientific advisory committee known as Majestic Twelve. The committee was ordered into existence by Truman in 1947 and consisted of twelve people which included prominent scientists, members of the military and elected officials. Originally created to study all available evidence that UFOs might be extraterrestrial crafts and offer advice to the President, the group may have evolved into a government within a government to deal with UFOs and Aliens in a manner that was completely separate from other U.S. Government departments or agencies.

John Lennon’s UFO experiences are among the most popular and controversial celebrity UFO events ever discussed and all are said to have occurred in New York City. Most people have heard about the August, 1974 sighting, so I will relate that story first. It began with the return of Lennon and May Pang from a long day at the Record Plant East where Lennon was working on tracks for his upcoming Walls and Bridges album. The two were staying at his 52nd Street Apartment which had a commanding view of the East River and the sky.

Sometime after 8:30pm, May was taking a shower while Lennon went up to the roof. After a few minutes, he began yelling for her to come up there. May rushed to the roof and found John pointing to what looked like a classic disc-shaped UFO that was silently hovering about 100 feet from them. The object seemed to change shape as it rotated and moved slowly towards the United Nations Building and out over the East River. Before it moved away, May ran and retrieved a 35mm camera from the apartment. She was able to get back to the roof in time to snap off a few photos of the object.

After the disc moved away, Lennon and May returned to the apartment. John made arrangements to have the film developed immediately by a photographer who was also a friend. Bob Gruen came and picked up the film. He returned to his studio and developed the film along with two rolls of his own. Gruen’s film developed perfectly, but he said that Lennon’s was blank. Fortunately, Lennon started making sketches of what he and May saw while it was all still fresh in his mind.

Another story about Lennon and a possible UFO experience comes from Uri Geller. He met Lennon in November of 1974 during a concert that Elton John was giving at Madison Square Garden. Geller was a kind of mystic to the Stars in those days and Lennon was in need of any help he could find. Distraught over his separation from Yoko, he wanted her back and asked Geller to use his alleged psychic powers to help. Yoko phoned John within thirty-six hours, the lovers reunited and John and Uri became friends.

Sometime after their reconciliation, Geller was eating with John and Yoko in a New York City restaurant. Yoko was pregnant, so it had to be sometime before Sean Lennon was born in October of 1975. Geller says that John became very serious and asked him to step over to a smaller table in a quiet corner of the restaurant. Once seated, Lennon spoke in discreet tones and told Uri about an incident that happened six months before. He and Yoko were asleep in bed when John suddenly woke up and noticed a blazing light shining through the cracks and keyhole of their bedroom door.

Thinking there was a fire or someone with a powerful flashlight trying to get into the room; he jumped out of their bed and opened the door. He was confronted by four beings. Lennon said, “They were, like, little. Bug-like. Big bug eyes and little bug mouths and they were scuttling at me like roaches.” He tried to resist the beings, but they kept coming at him. Lennon said that his next memory was of being back in bed with Yoko.

Yoko didn’t wake up during the incident, but later when she did it was obvious that John was very upset and confused. He couldn’t tell her what happened right away and waited for an unspecified period of time before he did. Exclaiming that he was sober and wasn’t doing any drugs at that time, Lennon said it wasn’t some sort of hallucination or lucid dream. According to Geller, John’s assertion about the reality of what happened was backed up by physical evidence.

When Lennon woke up, he claimed to be holding a small egg-shaped object in his hand. After eventually telling Yoko about the incident, he showed it to her. He also showed it to Geller. None of them had ever seen anything like it. However, apart from the golden color and egg shape, little is none about the object and it would be up to Geller to proceed with any investigation of its properties. Many abductees have told stories of being given various objects by their Alien abductors, only to have them taken back later

Having met many celebrities over the years, I can appreciate their need to weigh any statement they might consider making about anything carefully in the balances before speaking or writing it for public consumption. A fickle public and press can easily turn on someone famous for the smallest indiscretion. Imagine how they might react to news that a famous celebrity or important politician has had a UFO or other paranormal experience.

Nick Pope famous ufo investigator: Mr. Nick Pope worked for the Ministry of Defense in the U. K. He was in charge of ufo investigations for three years. He is the author of several ufo books and has appeared in various documentaries and tv programs.
Ken: Webmaster of About Facts Net Internet Magazine.
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Ken:
First of all I want to thank you for the interview, I really appreciate it and I thought that maybe, since I have a mixed audience, there not all ufo buffs, I thought that you might like to go into your duties at the position you had at the Ministry of Defence at the UK and maybe tell us about the books you have written?

Nick Pope:
Sure, well I only left the British Ministry of Defense last year, after a 21 year career. The way that one is attached to a post there, is what they do is, they move you around every 2 or 3 years to different posts. In my number of years there, I have done a number of different jobs there, all of them very interesting. The ones that I suppose that I am best known for were from 1991 through 1994. I was working in a division where my duties included researching and investigating into the ufo mystery. Although it wasn’t in the formal term of reference, you can’t run a ufo project without finding yourself on the receiving end of anything, so by default I got pulled in to things both weird and wonderful. So I got drawn in to other things like alien abductions and crop circles, ghosts and remote viewing, so that’s my background.

Ken:
OK so now maybe you would let us know some of the books that you have written?

Nick Pope:
I have written two non fiction books, one called “Open Skies, Closed Minds”, that was an overview of the ufo phenomenon, the book concentrated on my own official research and investigation, and I also wrote the “Uninvited”. And the only point in each was that they focused on alien abductions. I also decided to really speculate, I suppose, to combine some of what I learned about ufos with wider issues of crisis management in a government environment. I decided to write two science fiction novels, based on alien invasion, called Operation Thunder Child and Operation Lightning Strike and those were really speculative novels and I was having a bit of fun with the content but the main thing is that they claimed to be a superior beings or lifeforms.

Ken:
Well I imagine that it must be quite frustrating to you when some people think that you have all the answers to the ufo questions and they just won’t accept the answers that you give them. What was your most frustrating encounter?

Nick Pope:
Well yes, I think you hit the nail on the head there. I think some people have accused me of being part of the cover up myself. I’ve been portrayed, at least in the UK, of being a sort of real man in black type character. Yes you are quite right there are some people who think that I know all about the ufo phenomenon, they want an answer quick and they want a solution and they think that I know where the smoking gun is and when they hear the answer, certainly as far as I am aware in the UK that while the British government and the Air Force over the years has investigated thousands and thousands of cases, I’m sure we will get into that in a little while, some have been tracked on radar, some seen by pilots, we don’t have the answer, we don’t know what the ufo phenomena represents. Most are a case of misidentification of course, but we don’t know what that unknown 5% is. The possibility does remain about those things being extraterrestrial and indeed that statement can be seen on the MOD’s website, but we don’t have any evidence that points to ufos being extraterrestrial and we don’t have any hard proof. There are no spaceships in hangers here in the UK.

Ken:
The disclosure project has been getting some press for the last few years and I saw your name mentioned in some of the articles on the site. Correct me if I am wrong, you spoke as a witness, didn’t you?

Nick Pope:
Yeah, because I had written books on the subject. By the way I should clarify that I am in no sense a whistle blower. My book and indeed all my major activities have been cleared with the Ministry of Defence. Just as any former government or military or intelligence official wishes to write books and I am sure the situation in America and indeed all around the world is, that anyone who genuinely wants to write a book and wanted to draw on their official work to write a book after they left, that book has to go through a very detailed executive procedure to make sure that they didn’t inadvertently disclose any classified information. I of course, because I take my oath of secrecy very seriously, I have of course followed that system to the letter. So in no way should I be called traitor or simply whistle blower, speaking out or spilling the beans type of thing. Yes, in fact, fine, to answer the question. That information is in the public domain about ufos, that is in my book. I have no objection to having my name added to a list of witnesses. There were a number of other people on that list known to me, such as Lord Hill-Norton the former chief of defense staff, here in the MOD and much more senior than I and his name was there too, so I just felt that if it could help having my name on the list, somebody who’s background could be verified through a trail of documents and that it could be verified that I am who I said I was, that I just felt that it would do some good and I put my name on the list.

Ken:
Do you think that they have a chance of succeeding in their mission of getting all the ufo documents declassified and gaining access to alien technology if indeed alien technology exists?

Nick Pope:
I don’t know. I can only of course speak with any authority and knowledge of the United Kingdom, I don’t know what information still may or may not still exist in the U.S. that has not been released or declassified, so the honest answer is I don’t know. I wish them well, maybe there is a smoking gun, but as I said earlier, if there is a smoking gun, it certainly is not in the U.K. Its not one that I have been briefed on.

Ken:
When you testified before the Disclosure Project you said, and I hope I am quoting this correctly, “And if, as governments consistently say when the politicians probe on this issue or when the media inquire, that there’s really nothing to worry about, then okay, let’s see all the data.” Does this mean that you believe that important ufo data is being withheld from the public?

Nick Pope:
No it doesn’t mean…that quote is accurate, but what I mean by that quote is perhaps something slightly different from the way in which it has been interpreted. What I was really speaking about was freedom of information. I was speaking in the run up of the introduction of the British Freedom of Information Act, which many of your readers may not realize didn’t really come into force until 2005, where I know that perhaps it was geared to the Americans. But er I was thinking about information which I knew was about to be released. I was really encouraging my colleagues, as it were, to embrace the Freedom of Information Act, to embrace the concept of open government, they have and at least recognize that there can be a huge degree of interest in information about ufos and indeed my prediction proved correct. The British Ministry of Defence receives more Freedom of Information Act claims relating to ufos than any other subject, including the war in Iraq. So my quote was really preempting the huge interest and indeed, the MOD had disclosed hundreds upon hundreds of pages of documents some of which were classified at levels of Secret UK Eyes Only, some of which were pretty interesting. None of that information though was obtained through an extraterrestrial presence. I mean there really is sort of something going on. The good evidence suggests something tangible such as ufo sightings and they are not all misidentification, hoaxes or delusions, but we don’t know what they are.

Ken:
That is an interesting fact that you just gave me that there are more inquiries than on Iraq, I didn’t know that myself.

Nick Pope:
Yes, it is just phenomenal interest, a lot of it from the media, some of it from the ufo community and from individuals who just want to use the Freedom of Information Act to read about it and perhaps check details of their own sightings and see whatever investigation may or may not have taken place. But yeah there is an absolutely phenomenal amount of requests on the subject that are coming in over the years and it is that interestingly, that has led to deciding in the last few months, doing what the French governments did earlier this year and saying rather than this piecemeal approach, just filling in the cracks, this reactive approach, just ruling on a case by case basis, do what the French did, posting the entire archive and that is currently under consideration.

Ken:
I wasn’t going to ask this question, but since we got on to this topic, I saw a memo that is posted on the internet. Supposedly, the name is redacted, but it seems to come from somebody who is very high in the Ministry of Defence and it pertains to putting the data on the internet and it sort of suggests that one of the reasons they want to put all of the data on the internet is that if they don’t put it all on, they can say to people that down the road its coming, do you know what I mean?

Nick Pope:
Yes I’ve seen that document. It is a very difficult issue. I don’t think the person that was writing that was intending to do anything underhand. All the person meant was that under the Freedom of Information Act this information is about to be released, you can actually answer a request and say we are dealing with that file now. Rather than respond to your individual request, if you can wait a few weeks, the whole lot is going to be posted on the internet. It is much easier to get it from the internet than the National Archives, because the National Archives you have to visit. It is very difficult for someone who is not in touch. You know that once its on the internet, just about anyone with internet access can find it. The person was not trying to do anything underhand they were just saying that this is what the law says you can do. We had to find a way, given the volume of requests, to make this a bit more manageable. Quite frankly, my former colleagues there are absolutely sinking in a sea of Freedom of Information Act requests.

Ken:
I can imagine.

Nick Pope:
They are honestly not trying to be difficult about it but they just need someone to cut them a little bit of slack.

Ken:
Ancient ufos seem to be a topic of interest with many people. Did the Ministry of Defence ever find any evidence of ancient ufos or artifacts, that might indicate that ufos may have landed on Earth some time in our past, or that some ancient race may have existed on Earth that could have had space travel capability?

Nick Pope:
No, I have never seen any research done on that matter. Very much the terms of reference that we were operating under were very much geared to the current situation. In other words, investigating ufo reports as they came in to see whether there was evidence of a threat or evidence of a safety threat, as it were. I could do research, but historical research was frowned upon, it would have been outside the frame of reference. Frankly I was getting two or three hundred ufo reports each year, that had to be my priority.

Ken:
I guess that kept you kind of busy?

Nick Pope:
Yeah, absolutely. I’m aware of course of the literature of all sorts of people, Von Daniken, Velikovsky and many many others, Graham Hancock. Its an interesting area, but its not something that I have looked into and its not an area that interests the MOD as far as I am aware of.

Ken:
I would like to ask you a personal question, it has to do with the question I just asked you. There are cave paintings and ancient statues that some have interpreted as depicting men in space suits. There are also bones of giant people that have been found in tombs in different locations, do you believe that our ancestors might have met people from other planets, or that we ourselves may have come from other planets and settled on Earth?

Nick Pope:
I’ll give you the honest answer again, I don’t know. I’ve seen some of those cave paintings and at first glance they certainly look very interesting, but I also know that skeptical people say that we really don’t understand the psychology of our ancestors. Some of these images might not be visual, they might be allegorical. They could represent someone with a space helmet on, but they could just as easily represent some archetypical demon from a dream or nightmare.

Ken:
What famous ufo sightings occurred during your watch and what made them so much more interesting to you than some of the other ufo sightings?

Nick Pope:
The most significant case on my tour of duty was something called generically the Cosford Incident. You can go to the Ministry Defence website and that, by the way is just, MOD.uk and if you put in Cosford this is one of the case files that the Ministry of Defence has already released and it runs to over 100 pages of documentation, it is well worth the look. This was a case where over a period of about 6 hours we had a number of different ufo sightings from the 30th to the 31st of March 1993. We had ufo sightings from a number of different areas of the United Kingdom, seen by witnesses that included quite a lot of military personnel and police officers. The description varied, with reports of large triangular shaped craft that were fairly well represented in the case files. Most interesting was that ufos flew over two Air Force bases. Cosford had them, then a nearby base called Shawbury and seen by a patrol of Air Force police officers at the first base and seen by a meteorological officer as an unidentified flying object at the second base. Its size was midway between a C-130 Hercules transport and a Boeing 747. While clearly near to the base, there came a low frequency humming sound coming from the craft that inspired American military fighters on the ground and from a very slow pace it probably accelerated away very quickly. There was a witness that had been in the Air Force 8 years and saw military jets, helicopters on a daily basis. So clearly, witnesses like that are pretty interesting. We launched a very detailed investigation, one of the first things that we did was check the radar tapes. There were some inconclusive readings, but nothing you could hang your hat on. Some of my Air Force colleagues, that I sent out, said well it could just be ground clutter. It sometimes happens with some of the radar systems at the base. Nothing to say to that and even my very skeptical head of division, when he wrote on this event some two or three weeks after, summarizing this investigation, wrote to the assistant chief of the Air Force, a two star military chief and he said briefly, briefly in summary, that there seemed to be some evidence that an object or objects, was flying over the United Kingdom. Now that is about as close as you will ever get to saying on the subject that yeah, there is something here and its real, of course none of that means an extraterrestrial. Its certainly a case that changed a lot of people’s minds, both the civilian employees and the military colleagues that were briefed on it.

Ken:
As we know, a lot of different satellites have the capability of looking down and also the space shuttle has the capability of taking pictures both looking down and looking out into space and the United States has taken some pictures of some unknown objects. Were you ever involved with any project with the MOD where sightings were taken through satellites, of ufos?

Nick Pope:
No I have not been involved in anything like that, having said that, what I did do, an organization that I did work with was an air force base called Fylingdales which was part of the ballistic missile early warning system. Fylingdales of course had a network of space tracking radar and were part of a system to track about 8 thousand objects in space like satellites and a spanner dropped by an astronaut and when I was doing my ufo investigations with the agency, there were two staffers at Fylingdales. That is just an area that I can’t go into in great detail.

Ken:
I understand

Nick Pope:
Having said that, I’ll tell you an anecdotal story that you just might find interesting. I just had to check the capability that we had with one of my colleagues and he said, well yes we sometimes see very strange things here. Like things traveling at speeds of 15,000 or 20,000 thousand miles per hour, or something like that. We call them all fireballs.

Ken:
Can I stop you for one second and ask you one quick question?

Nick Pope:
Sure.

Ken:
Have they ever seen anything that they thought might have hit the speed of light or exceeded the speed of light?

Nick Pope:
No. They were talking speeds of 15,000 to 20,000 miles per hour. They said yeah, we call them fireballs. Well I said sorry, but how do you know that they are fireballs? They said because they go very fast. So it was a kind of catch 22. A lot of government ufo research is like that, it can be quite frustrating. You don’t really get all the answers, because every time you answer a question, you get another one.
Ken:
Did you have any access to any other ufo records, such as European records or records from the United States?

Nick Pope:
In terms of reference we were very much limited to the United Kingdom, however on occasion we used to get reports from elsewhere, you couldn’t really investigate them because you didn’t have jurisdiction. But what I did do on occasion was a little bit of liaison, in particular with the Belgians. There was a very famous wave of sightings over Belgium in 1989 and in 1990. I immediately, when I investigated Cosford, I immediately recognized the parallel with what happened in Belgium. Not the least was the staff who say I’m linking the main Belgium sightings of 30 31st of March 1990 and the Cosford incident itself was 31st of March 1993. See that in itself is interesting as was the fact that we are dealing with large triangular shaped craft that are capable of maneuvering at a very quite rate of speed. So I contacted our air attache at our British embassy in Brussels and he had said that a call was made to two pilots of the Belgian Air Force and they had scrambled and tried to intercept the ufos, and a call was made to Major General De Brower, the Belgian officer who after those incidents gave a press conference on all this. Yes this was a major news story.

Ken:
I think that this was televised.

Nick Pope:
Yes and certainly I had it confirmed to me by the embassy. Yes, everything you read about this and it was on tv. Please bear in mind that the Belgian Air Force, the Belgian government, the pilot, and the general air defense staff and the Belgian Air defense headquarters, all believe that the craft was a real solid object and there was an almost funny and humorous anecdotal story at the end of this. It was, well thank goodness that they were friendly, because if they hadn’t have been, we really couldn’t have done much about it.

Ken:
Thats for sure.
I know that you have discussed this many times, but I am under the impression that you consider the Rendlesam Forest ufo case to be one of the most important. Is that correct?

Nick Pope:
Yes indeed. Although it happened in the 1980s before I joined the Ministry of Defence. I was soon getting questions about that. Members of parliament were asking questions about it, military were asking about it, ufo people were asking about it. So of course, one of the first things that I did when I took up my post at the ufo project, was to pull the file up. At first, of course, I was extremely interested because you had a report of a landed ufo. We had numerous United States Air Force witnesses. We had radiation readings taken at the landing site. We had a defense intelligence staff of experts who stated that radiation readings had been “significantly higher than background” and again there is another file, another case file that is on the MOD website for people to see. Once I got beyond my interest, I became a little concerned, I don’t ever like to criticize my former colleagues, it is just a matter of loyalty and professional courtesy, but I do have to say the investigation, the original investigation, was not handled, shall I say, the way that I would have handled it.

Ken:
Many people feel that way, yeah..

Nick Pope:
A number of fundamental things that I think should have been done, were not done. The most logical thing that should have been done, that wasn’t done, was the immediate cordoning off of the landing site, post guards on it and protect it from decontamination. Another thing that wasn’t done was the taking of soil samples and of control samples from immediately outside of the landing zone. Perhaps worst of all, we effectively had two parallel investigations. The United States Air Force were busily interviewing the various witnesses and taking statements and details of the craft, detailed sketches and descriptions, right down to the hieroglyphics seen on the side. The Ministry of Defence was busy sending the radiation readings, getting intelligence on the craft, getting an assessment on the radar tape, but no one person was in charge. No one single person was making sure that all this data was shared, so you had a bizarre situation where the Ministry of Defence knew that the radiation readings were significantly higher than the background, but failed to give that fact to the United States Air Force. The United States Air Force failed to pass the witness statements to the Ministry of Defence, for example sketches of the craft with the markings on the side, so that is just to start, I could probably write a much more detailed critique that would probably go on for pages. Those are some of the errors.

Ken:
Well let me ask you this then, Gordon Edward Williams was a Major General, I think. He was involved in this, with the Brentwaters Woodbridge ufo and he stated, just recently, that he actually talked to an alien.

Nick Pope:
Well I’m not sure he did say that. I saw it reported on the internet, but I would be very surprised if it was a first hand quote. I mean I’ve actually sat down, together with a civilian ufo researcher Georgina Bruni, who wrote a book on this. We sat down and had dinner with the General a couple of years ago and he certainly made no such claim. I would be extremely surprised, I’m not sure what the source of that is, I have a feeling that its a second or third hand quote.

Ken:
Yeah you are probably right, I don’t know the source either, I just happened to see it.

Nick Pope:
I don’t think he made the quote, I don’t think he saw the ufo, let alone any extraterrestrials. Just going back to the investigation on a critical question, a ufo investigation should be similar in a way, to a police investigation with some of the things you do. In other words you need an investigation plan, an interview, witnesses, to identify, recover and analyze evidence. Those two strands, as it were, are common in both police investigations and ufo investigations. One of the things that can go wrong in either investigation is delay and delay was a critical factor, I’m afraid, in the Rendlesham Forest investigation. In part because there was a critical period and many of the key personnel were on leave. I think it exposed a gap, as it were, by virtue of the fact that there should have been a standard operating procedure, so that everyone should have known what their actions should have been. Instead, I think, everyone ran around saying oh gosh what do we do, we never had anything like this before?

Ken:
Do you think that’s because nobody takes a ufo investigation very seriously?

Nick Pope:
I think that is a big part of it. I agree very much so by the very nature of the word ufo. Some people will roll their eyes and start humming the X-Files, all sorts of potential ridicule, and I suppose that’s why Air Force pilots who have seen ufos never reported them, probably because they feared ridicule. They felt that the chain of command might question their judgment and psychological state, such is life. Yeah I think that was the critical factor perhaps in what went wrong in the investigation at Rendlesham. They thought, ufos what do we do? In fact that was one of the reasons, when I was filling the post, we tried banning the use of the word ufo, at least in our internal discussions. We tried to replace it with UAP Unidentified Ariel Phenomenon. We felt that we were just trying to rebrand the whole phenomenon in a more scientific way, because it was due to the critical nature of the ufos and I think your audience attributed this to a political or military or governmental forum.

Ken:
Have you ever heard of a ufo crash in the British Empire?

Nick Pope:
I have certainly seen, shall we say, all sorts of second and third hand reports, but certainly I have not seen a first hand report. I think that what is a potential crash site to various researchers will invariably turn out to be an aircraft crash, or a fireball, or indeed, just a very tall story. So that, yes I heard many many stories, but really only in ufo literature, not in any of the MOD case files.

Ken:
I don’t know if you can answer the next question or not? Project Blue Book had about 4 employees. How many people worked at the ufo project at the MOD and what were their duties?

Nick Pope:
Well it was effectively just me and one administrative duty officer in a support role. Having said that, of course you have to understand, that doesn’t tell the whole story of what we couldn’t do, or be it that they were not full time on the project, but any time we wanted, we could pull in. So we were the ones, as it were, at the center of the web, but we could pull in, for example, Air Force Officers to impound radar tapes, then to pick them up and analyze them, get special personnel, special equipment and make inspections of personnel and equipment. Make sure we had the personnel and special equipment to punch through the formality to get the radar tapes at Fylingdales, so that when you look at Blue Book and you look at us, it sounds like very small numbers. I hope and think that we punched above our weight.

Ken:
I think that you did.
Have you ever come across any ufo cases that turned out not to be ufo cases, just some people pursuing an agenda?

Nick Pope:
You mean an out and out hoax?

Ken:
Well a hoax or something where they were using it to make a reputation for themselves.

Nick Pope:
No, not in an official capacity. I’ve come across all sorts of hoaxes, pranks, things like that. There are a number of videos and things like that. I am not talking about anything official, we didn’t go on file sharing sites, like Youtube and things, that you see on almost a daily basis. They are what I suspect, some viral marketing campaign or some designer showcasing their talents and having a bit of fun with a hoax. I think that is something that has always gone on. Back in the 1950s, people were trying to fool the Ministry of Defence by literally cutting out saucer shapes and pasting them to their window and taking a photograph. So its always gone on. Its just that the technology to do it is getting more sophisticated, but I don’t think, hoaxing has always been a part of the problem, but it is a minuscule part of the problem. Again without going into the details of the base facility we had we had all sorts of specialists, equipment and indeed personnel to analyze these things, who could very easily spot a fake.

Ken:
Right.
Well the next question I just have to ask you. I only ask you because there are so many rumors on the internet. Have you ever seen any documents that indicate that the Nazis succeeded in building a flying saucer and that it could have been copied by the victorious forces and that what we are seeing today is the modern day version of it?

Nick Pope:
No, I think one of the points about disc shaped craft is that they are incredibly unstable and this would be a very very difficult shape to fly. Now I don’t dispute, it is a matter of record that there were aircraft designers that were thinking about these things, but I don’t believe and I see no evidence to suggest that the Nazis ever got anything remotely like a working prototype, let alone an operational craft and lets face it, this was total war, if the Nazis had something like that, a craft like that, they would have used it. I don’t think the thought or ideas of such a craft went very far off the drawing board.

Ken:
The United States had at least one incident where several missiles were shut down and prevented from going back on launch ready status, while a ufo hovered above the silos. An example of this happened at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Montana, in 1967. This would seem to be a threat to the world’s defenses. Correct me if I am wrong, but the British government has said in the past that ufos pose no threat. Did the British government ever investigate this incident and if so, what conclusion did they come to if you know?

Nick Pope:
I don’t know. I am aware of the case from the literature. I am not sure whether the Americans ever shared any information on that with the British government. I don’t, to be honest, know if the British government ever asked the Americans for a report on that. So, yes, sorry I don’t know.

Ken:
Alright thats the answer.
There seems to be a rash of sightings by airline pilots. One was reported over the Channel Islands in April [2007] and it was said to be about a mile wide. How can something this size, which is seen by a professional pilot, or in this case two pilots in two different planes, be disproven or even ignored by the government or do you think that they are secretly investigating the sightings?

Nick Pope:
Well I am familiar with that case. I think that what might have been called a ufo might have been two ufos and not as much as a mile long. I haven’t heard officially. I think I recall having an interview with the pilot concerned. His name is Ray Bowyer in which he said well that was just an estimate of something very far away, I think I might have worked it out. So this is really not something of value. Having said that, perhaps it being a mile wide seems to be of extreme interest, in the short term, the MOD did investigate and there is a case file, a very small one and again it is on the MOD’s website. If you search the term ufo, Channel Islands, you’ll find it. I think it is about a half dozen pages. Well again I don’t like to criticize, but it is not the most detailed investigation in the world and no one seems to know for sure what type of radar sensor there was at the airport security, which I would have thought would have been the first question that they asked. Whether there is anything new going on or indeed the civil aviation authorities might know something as well, I don’t know. It may be that the pressure from the journalists and Parliament and the ufo community might cause the MOD to scan a bit. There is a small case file on it and indeed now from Ray Bowyer, the pilot, and from one of the other sources in the aviation community here there does seem to be an indication that they are working on the tracking on radar and there does seem to be corroboration of the findings. So those things say a lot.

Ken:
Alright.
It is said that only one in seven sightings is reported. When it comes to airline pilots, there is probably much less reporting, because they are afraid of losing their jobs. Airline pilots just might be in the best position to see ufos and might have a far greater number of sightings. Do you agree with this statement and if not, why?

Nick Pope:
Yes I do agree with it and I guess its true of both military pilots and civil airline pilots, many of whom have told me, off the record, of ufo sightings and many of whom have told me that they didn’t write a report, because they feared for their jobs or they feared ridicule from their colleagues or they knew it would cause them much difficulty. Its extremely unfortunate. Technically, reporting isn’t optional it is mandatory, particularly if the object comes close enough to present a potential hazard. By training, all pilots do have to do that and I think it is encouraging that there have been several more over the years, but I do think that there is still a job to be done in selling this message to the aviation community. It is not something to be embarrassed about, frankly it should be in the training. Its very interesting, a couple of years ago previously, the Ministry of Defence published a previously highly classified discussion on ufos and one of the recommendations did relate to flight safety, so there is an issue quite apart from what ufos are, having flight safety as the issue and certainly I’m aware of quite a number of cases where there has been a near collision between aircraft and ufos.

Ken:
Did any of the reports you received on non ufo topics ever seem to tie into a legitimate ufo sighting? For example did you ever get a paranormal report and it turned out that it was really a ufo sighting that they were talking about?

Nick Pope:
No, I got, I think I mentioned at the outset, I did get reports such as alien abductions, crop circles and ghosts. All those sightings tended to be fairly compartmentalized. I am always wary of bad science in explaining one sighting by another. I mean literally, I would get a report from some security guard saying they were on night patrol and saw a shadowy figure walk through a wall for example. I would regard that as a ghost report. I didn’t have much to do with it, I didn’t try and explain one mystery by another.

Ken:
Giorgio Bonguivanni met with the Russian military after getting permission from former President Gorbverchov to do so. The Russians answered questions pertaining to ufos. The Russian general that was interviewed said that he believed that there were powers other than humans and they were expecting something from us and that information is being withheld by Russia and the US on ufos. What is your opinion about his statement and does it surprise you that he was so candid?

Nick Pope:
Well again I know that there are so many statements that are doing the rounds that are false

Ken:
May I interrupt you on this?

Nick Pope:
Yeah.

Ken:
This was on a dvd. The whole meeting was recorded on video.

Nick Pope:
So this was the general first hand?

Ken:
Unless the dvd is a fraud.

Nick Pope:
Ok, well I better not, for legal reasons, go down that road. Yes, of course I have to see the comments in context.

Ken:
Well are you familiar with Mr. Giorgio Bonguivanni, he’s a….

Nick Pope:
Yes I believe I met him, he is a stigmatic.

Ken:
Exactly.

Nick Pope:
Yes I met him a few years ago in London. So yeah, I am familiar with him. In fact I may have seen the dvd or one certainly very much like it. I have seen all sorts of former Soviet military personnel speak on ufos. What I’m listening to invariably, is someone dubbing. I don’t know Russian so I don’t know if everything is taken in the literal sense, or the comments are simply about belief. For example Lord Hill-Norton, who I mentioned earlier, went on the public record a number of times saying that he believed that there was a cover up. He didn’t know, that was his belief.

Ken:
Well that is what the general claimed too, he was just saying his belief.

Nick Pope:
Whether that belief comes from knowledge or first hand evidence, we don’t know.

Ken:
I guess you know Bob Lazar?

Nick Pope:
Yes,

Ken:
Do you think that he actually worked at Area 51 and do you think that he actually saw a flying saucer?

Nick Pope:
Again I’m going to have to fall back on I don’t know. My only knowledge of this is through ufo literature therefore I’m better at my work qualifying what I used to do.

Ken:
Ok, I’ve got a more interesting question. A famous sighting occurred at Shag Harbor in Canada on October 4, 1967, where a ufo supposedly crashed into the water and a second one came to rescue it. There were all sorts of stories about American and Canadian ships chasing them and divers seeing the craft and even aliens. Do you think that there is any truth to any of this and if not, what could the objects have been that seemed to be able to navigate while flying and also while submerged?

Nick Pope:
Well again I’m familiar with that case, but I am sorry to keep…..

Ken:
I’m only asking a personal opinion.

Nick Pope:
Again, I really don’t know. Its not a case that I have studied at the MOD. Again I really don’t know any more or less than anyone else. I read the odd magazine article. There is an old saying used by intelligence analysts all over the world. The phrase is interesting if true.

Ken:
Thats a good one.

Nick Pope:
In cases like this its hard to say. You know if I was interviewing you and asked for an answer to every single case in Britain, Canada and America I think it would be awfully suspicious. No expert I know, knows it all.

Ken:
I wasn’t really asking for you expert opinion in this, I just wanted to know how you felt about it.

Nick Pope:
I am going to have to fall back on the, interesting if true.

Ken:
Ok.
I see where the Ministry of Defence has released 29 sightings and they all seem to be over Lincolnshire in Great Britain and they cover several years. Is there any reason that you know about, that so many sightings would be in the same area, such as an experimental military craft being tested in that area? Did you ever notice that more ufo reports were coming from one spot, more than the others?

Nick Pope:
I think that what happened there is that what you might have is a local newspaper report. What happened over the last several months, is that the Ministry of Defence released summary sheets of all ufo sightings reported to the department from 1998 to 2006, but what happened is that all the local media have seized on this, they found it on the Ministry of Defence website, so they have run stories, but only about ufo sightings in their area, so you have got a lot of people saying we found 20 ufo sightings in Lincolnshire over the last few years. What they don’t go on to say, is that if they look at the summary sheets in their entirety, that each year there is over a hundred reports that come from different locations. I think what you got here is just reporting things in their own area. Having said that, there are occasional hot spots and I asked one of my administrative staff to go back through the files to try and make an outlying map and try and pinpoint those sightings geographically. Interestingly, what you got, er, what you have is basically a population density map. Which essentially only proves that if there is a ufo sighting over 50 people are likely to see it, probably not. The ufo hot spots actually turn out to be big cities, London, Manchester and Liverpool in Great Britain.

Ken:
We were always under the impression that if there were hot spots they would turn out to be nuclear power plants, etc.

Nick Pope:
Well there is something there, what you call clustering in interesting ways, it is quite controversial. Military bases for example, had a lot of ufo incidents, Randlesham Forest, Woodbridge, the Cosford incident although in fact, there are several dozens of ufo reports all around the country that pertain to military bases. Whether that means that ufos are interested in these sites or whether it is just that these sites are where the witnesses are trained observers and they are aware of ufos or more likely they’re more apt to get investigated.

Ken:
Have you ever investigate any abduction reports?

Nick Pope:
Yes, having said that, I think the word investigated might be difficult to describe that. It is what you might call, in terms of reference, in depth, perhaps a dozen or so. While short of doing something way outside our frame of reference, like calling the people in and doing hypothetic regressing, which is very controversial and that sort of thing. It is questionable, I think, morally. Now what I tried to do was to give them the pros and cons of regression and to point them to civilian ufo researchers. So I did get the report, I am not sure I can put my hand on my heart and say that I investigated them the same way that I investigate a ufo sighting.

Ken:
At this point I’ve talked to you for an hour. I’d like to ask you more questions but I don’t want to presume on you. Are you alright?

Nick Pope:
I am happy to keep going for a little bit.

Ken:
Could I change my tape?

Nick Pope:
Sure.

Ken:
Thanks. Ok, I’m back in business.

Nick Pope:
Ok, I don’t know how many more questions you prepared?

Ken:
I’m not going to go through all the questions. I drew up 54 questions, because I didn’t know how long each question would take and it seems that we can do about 24 questions in about an hour.
Nick Pope:
Ok, we done 24, I’m not going to volunteer to go all the way to 55. That would probably take up the rest of the evening.

Ken:
Of course, I wouldn’t do that. I’m going to skip a lot of questions here.

Nick Pope:
Yeah, I’m happy to do another 15 minutes or something like that and answer any really important questions that you may want to cover.

Ken:
Ok. I want to ask you about Gary McKinnon, are you familiar with him?

Nick Pope:
I am, that is going to be a very quick answer though, because legal proceedings are still ongoing. I don’t want to discuss that I’m afraid.

Ken:
Thats ok, I’ll skip it.
The next question is just a personal opinion. Are you familiar with the fact that scientists have stated that 95% of our dna is alien, and what do you think about that?

Nick Pope:
I’m not familiar with that and I guess my question would be, which scientists have said that? No I am not familiar with that claim at all. When they say alien, I don’t understated how they could be saying that? No I am really not familiar with that claim and I would be extremely surprised if it is a claim from any mainstream….

Ken:
It is from the Genome Project.

Nick Pope:
Well….

Ken:
It is from the scientists working on the Genome Project. They actually came out and said that.

Nick Pope:
Alien, I mean….

Ken:
As in not being from the Earth.

Nick Pope:
Ah, well now…..

Ken:
Not as in alien

Nick Pope:
Maybe there buying in to the Panspermia theory that organic materials have come to Earth from elsewhere. It is not a field that I am familiar with. I follow it in a very casual way, not a scientific one.

Ken:
How about this, you are very familiar with remote viewing. Did you ever hear of a remote viewer picking up what he thought was the inside of a ufo?

Nick Pope:
I have heard about that, but again it was from literature. I should say that the Ministry of Defence did have a kind of project to investigate the possibility of remote viewing, long after the Americans had launched their project which was Stargate The Ministry of Defence came very late to this particular phase. It was 2001 before the Ministry of Defence started work on studying remote viewing to see if anyone could demonstrate remote viewing. Of course I wasn’t involved in it and found out years later about it. It was a very interesting project, but whether it ever developed into a operational project, I don’t know. I have seen books by some of the Americans like David Morehouse who made a number of claims, but I seen nothing like that in any British projects. Incidently the British study is something that again is on the Ministry of Defence’s website. Go to MOD.uk and type in remote viewing and you will see what us Brits have been up to.

Ken:
Disinformation is the topic of conversation between many people today. You have probably come across it yourself. Without naming any names, do you feel that there are any ufo organizations that are there only to put out disinformation?

Nick Pope:
No. I think that there are a number of individual ufo organizations that are putting out information that is plain wrong. But in my experience, certainly in Britain, I see no evidence that the government or MOD used ufo organizations to put out disinformation. In a sense they don’t have to do a thing. The ufo community is their own worst enemy. I think that there is so much noise as it were and so little substance sometimes. Governments don’t have to use disinformation.

Ken:
I want to ask you about the ufo that was over O’Hare Airport in Chicago. Have you ever spoken to anybody about that?

Nick Pope:
No I haven’t. It was only published a week or two ago. I’ve seen the NARCAP report. by Ted Roe

Ken:
Yeah, thats where they say it was a danger to air traffic.

Nick Pope:
Yeah I have to be totally honest with you, because of the shear length of the report, I haven’t read it in its entirety yet, but I think its from, what I have seen, its a splendid piece of work by NARCAP. I think this is a tremendous, really something that should have a proper scientific investigation and you can’t have ufos flying around in controlled air space. The Federal Aviation Agency or others should look at this very seriously. Its interesting that there have been thousands of reports from pilots and controllers and other people in aviation, so they are doing their job.

Ken:
What do you think about all the sightings in Mexico? Thousands and thousands of people have seen them. I am not going to go into the record, I think that you are familiar with them. They never seem to make the papers, at least in the United States, why do you think that is?

Nick Pope:
I think that some of them are probably helium balloons blowing in the wind, to be honest. I am not saying that there are not some more interesting ones in there. Its not something that I have been following too closely, but I’m going next month, when is it, in just about three weeks time, I be in D.C. for the X conference. I think, from memory, that Jamie Maussan….
Ken:
I was going to ask you if you knew Jamie Maussan?

Nick Pope:
I think that he is one of the other speakers there and it may well be that after the X conference, I think that Jamie will be there and I may get to ask him that question.

Ken:
Many recorded communications are said to exist that prove that astronauts have been followed by ufos and have reported seeing ufos. Have you ever received any documents to indicate that this is true and do you believe that this has happened?

Nick Pope:
Well I think that it is a matter of public record that people like Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchel and people like that made comments about ufos, some of which relate to them being seen, some of which relate to their belief, going back to the question of which statement comes from first hand knowledge and which statement is belief. I think somebody sent me one of the very many videos that is around on the subject, the other day. There are all sorts of things floating around in space. When they catch sunlight, they can perhaps look bigger than they are and literally fit the ufo definition, because the astronauts don’t know what they are, they are ufos. Of course now at actual NASA conferences, the NASA people will say that these are probably ice crystals, maybe off of the space craft or lint or other very informal material, material off the shuttle bay or things like that. I am not one of the believers that NASA is part of a ufo cover up. NASA would love them to be ufos, they would probably quadruple their budget overnight. So yes, there are strange things that the astronauts have seen, but I think that they are some times difficult, because they get shoved into a ufo documentary and you get people who are not qualified to really know what they are looking at. I am talking about going deep into making contact.

Ken:
Here is what I wanted to ask you about. Have you ever heard of any ufos that were visible through binoculars, in other words with the aided eye that couldn’t be seen with the naked eye and were not at a distance that precluded them from being seen with the naked eye?

Nick Pope:
No, I haven’t come across anything like that.

Ken:
Well I have, that is why I was asking you the question.

Nick Pope:
I can’t say that I have. Maybe there are one or two cases in the MOD files. I haven’t looked at every single case right from beginning to end. Nothing should be ruled out in Britain

Ken:
Well it sort of ties in with people that have taken photos, just taken a photo of the sky, didn’t see anything there, and yet when they looked at the photo they saw a ufo on the picture.

Nick Pope:
I am certainly familiar with many many cases where that has happened. I think that in many of those cases that have been investigated it was more likely to be the camera itself. I don’t rule out something on the photo.

Ken:
Lastly this is your chance to discuss anything that you would like to.

Nick Pope:
Well ok I’ll em…, I guess that my allegiencey to the ufo phenomenon does raise important defense questions. I don’t have any knowledge that constitutes a smoking gun and I am not aware of anything that could fall into that category. It definitely points in the way to ufos, but there is nothing in the way of proof that I can show anyone. I think, really as a closing statement, that I would say that I think that there are various natural phenomenon I know that this is probably a very unpopular statement for a ufo researcher. If there is life out there and I am fairly sure there is, I suspect that our proof will jump up through the ufo community. It will probably come through radio astronomy. And I think that it is particularly interesting that what has happened, er what is happening in regard to things like the Square Kilometer Array, which is the next generation of big space telescope.

Ken:
We call it the large array, it is the same thing.

Nick Pope:
You have got the Very Large Array, which is already operational which I think is in use. My understanding is that the Square Kilometer Array is either going to…, construction hasn’t begun yet.

Ken:
Oh!

Nick Pope:
This is the next generation one. It is going to be built, they had four sites, the last I saw they had two final sites, one is in Australia I think, the other is in South Africa. It is not going to be operational until 2020, but when it is operational, its sensitivity and power is going to be several orders of what you have now. Certainly I am aware that they believe that there are other civilizations out there, certainly within a hundred light years of here. That a distance that contains several thousand stars. Any signal that emanates should be detected. I have great hopes and I think those hopes are going to manifest themselves in SETI and the radio astronomy unit. I think they are, but that is just the way I feel at the moment.

Ken:
The interview is officially finished now and I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed it.

Nick Pope
I enjoyed it too.
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References:
The Disclosure Project - A group of concerned people from all walks of life that are trying to get the US government to release all ufo data and alien technology, if any.
Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident - In December of 1980, a ufo landed in the woods outside an air force base in Britain, It was manned by Americans who saw the craft and investigated the landing along with the British.
Project Blue Book - An Air force project to explain ufo sightings.
Gordon Williams - A British General that was rumored to have said that he talked to aliens during the Rendlesham Forest incident.
Malmstrom Air Force Base - in 1967 a ufo was over this US base in Montana when several missiles were taken off line unexpectedly.
Giorgio Bongiovanni - An Italian who was allowed to interview a Russian General about ufos. The KGB were also present.
Bob Lazar - A person who claims to have been an engineer at Area 51 who said he saw a ufo there and was employed to reverse engineer them.
Shag Harbor - A ufo incident that occurred in Canada in 1967 where a ufo was said to have crashed into the water only to be followed by a second one.
Gary McKinnon - A famous British hacker that hacked into NASA and the US military. He was caught and claimed that he found important secret ufo data.
Remote Viewing - A technique that was used during the cold war by the US, Britain and the Soviet Union to see into places while remaining at a location. It was said to have no limit as far as distance was concerned.
Jamie Maussan - A famous Mexican tv news reporter that specializes in ufo reporting.
Area 51 - A secret US Air Force Base.